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Transparent HR Podcast
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Transparent HR Podcast
WHAT THE...DEI? | Navigating Workplace Inclusion in a Polarized Climate w/ Dr. MJ McConner | Ep. 15
Prince Tate teams up with the brilliant Dr. Mary M.J. McConner to break down the big buzzword in today’s workplace—DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion).
They’re keeping it real as they unpack what DEI actually means, tackle common myths, and dive into how political noise is shaking up the way we talk about inclusion at work. From explaining how DEI differs from affirmative action to highlighting why everyone benefits from these efforts, this conversation is one you don’t want to miss.
Dr. McConner brings the heat with fresh insights, emphasizing community, the role of the EEOC, and how organizations can truly support their people—not just check boxes. It’s informative, honest, and packed with the kind of clarity that makes this podcast your go-to for real HR talk.
Key Takeaways:
🔍 DEI is under the microscope in today’s political world.
🌍 Diversity includes way more than just race and gender.
⚖️ Equity is about leveling the playing field—not giving handouts.
🤝 Inclusion = belonging for everyone.
❌ DEI ≠ hiring unqualified people.
✅ When done right, DEI helps all employees thrive.
🎭 Some companies are rebranding DEI to dodge backlash.
🧠 Staying informed and building community helps you navigate the noise.
🛡️ The EEOC is still here to protect employee rights.
💛 A people-first mindset is the real key to a healthy workplace culture.
Connect with Dr. MJ McConner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmjmcconner/
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💼 Connect with Prince Tate
Today's episode is all about what the DEI diversity, equity and inclusion as DEI initiatives are being increasingly scrutinized. In today's political landscape, this topic is more relevant than ever. From corporate policies to state and federal legislation, DEI has sparked heated debates. That goes beyond the workplace, so we're asking what does DEI really mean in today's climate, how has the political conversation impacted its role in the workplace, and what does it mean for the future of inclusion in our society? So stay tuned for the conversation, hey, and welcome back to the Transparent Nature podcast, where we bring real conversations to help you navigate your career and workplace challenges. It's your host, Prince Tate, and thank you so much for joining us today. We have a very exciting episode for you today and I can't wait to dive into the conversation. If you are new to listening to the Transparent Nature podcast, I want you to go, share it with a friend and hit that subscribe button. Make sure you follow us to see all of the episodes that we have coming out. We also have career chats that are short, bite-sized inspiration quotes and all about careers. So we want you to listen in on our episodes that come out weekly. Again, if you've been enjoying the show, we'd love for you to again hit that subscribe button, share the episode with someone who can benefit from it, and also we want you to leave us a review. We've been getting a lot of comments, feedback from my personal LinkedIn as well as the podcast LinkedIn, but guess what? We want you to share your thoughts about the podcast on Apple, on Spotify, on iHeartRadio, so please make sure you do that.
Speaker 1:Our guest today is Dr Mary MJ McConner. She goes by Dr MJ, a global thought leader in workplace belonging and inclusive leadership. As the founder of Inclusive Excellence Consulting, Dr McConner, also known as Dr MJ, works with organizations worldwide to create inclusive cultures that thrive. A proud member of the hard of hearing and dyslexic communities, she combines her lived experience with cutting edge insights to help leaders foster innovation and authenticity in the workplace. Innovation and authenticity in the workplace. Dr MJ's work has been featured in prominent outlets such as US News and World Report, Business Insider, Afrotech, as well as Fox. In a time when DEI is at the forefront of national conversations spanning corporate policies, political debates and even new legislation, Dr MJ's insight is more critical than ever before. Dr McConnor, Dr MJ, welcome to the Transparent Nature podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good and I'm excited to be here and, like you said, this is very much a hot topic and I have a lot of thoughts, but I also have a lot of thoughts guided and researched, so I don't want it to be one of those things where it seems like it's just opinions. A lot of what I talk about will be actual facts, evidence-based, fact-based. This is what's going down right now in our country.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, welcome to the podcast. Look, I shared a snippet of her bio and this is a really impressive doctor here. I mean, she's doing a lot of great work, and I'm also proud to say that we both sit on the board with SHRM Memphis here in Memphis, tennessee. So it's much of an honor to have you on the show today, dr MJ.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate you and shout out to SHRM Memphis. I just feel like we have one of the cooler chapters in the country, of course, I'm biased, I teach about bias. Right, I acknowledge my bias, but we do have like a great chapter with so many great HR professionals, so I'm really glad to be here with you.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, as you know, I lead the young professional space and you know we've been doing a lot of great things in 2025. So, hey, this is not about sharing Memphis. This is about, again, the hot topic that we're going to talk about with the DEI. So, before we get into this conversation, I want to ask something today. Want to ask something today what is a pit peeve of yours, a workplace pit peeve, whether that's something positive or negative that you have.
Speaker 2:I got a good one. So, as somebody who has lived through this personally, and I have found myself guilty of this in the past and I had to check myself micromanaging is one of those things, and I had to check myself. Micromanaging is one of those things. See you, see your face, listen, I think.
Speaker 1:I've lived through that.
Speaker 2:I think every person in the workforce at some point has either lived through it or will live through it, or they're going to encounter somebody else who lives through it. And I recently just had to have a conversation with a person. I do some executive coaching and I'm like you know you have some really talented people on your team. You have to trust them to do their job.
Speaker 2:So I think that's one of those things. I think a lot of people can relate to that. But I think it's one of those things If you're coachable, you can unlearn that behavior. But oh, it drives me up a wall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to let our people do what they do best. You know when to move out the way. Yeah, you know, I think it's all about trust. It is like you have to trust your team right, especially if you are the one that hired them come on, come on, say it again exactly you know if you, if you are the one that hired them, you need to trust.
Speaker 1:Trust that you number one, that you made a good decision to hire them. Right, because it first reflects your leadership style in ensuring that you are hiring the best talent, not just talent, but the best personality, the best person that works well with you and your team. Right, and so you have to again, like you said, trust your team members. I think it's all about empowering great leaders, empower their employees, and so, again, it's all about trust, it's all about empowerment, so you don't have to micromanage and check on what they're doing every single day, right?
Speaker 1:So, I think I'm I'm in alignment with what you said, that that is one of my pet peeves as well. But you know, it's like if you are dealing with a micromanager, then hey, you may want to listen to one of my episodes I think it's episode seven where it talks about toxic leadership, how to navigate toxic leaders and so you may want to go back and listen to that episode. So let's get into the conversation. Hey, we may do stuff a little different on this episode. So, hey, if you are listening, make sure, if you're driving, pull over to the side, because I don't want you to get into an accident. No, I'm just kidding, I don't want you to get into an accident. No, I'm just kidding, but real quick, if you're listening to this episode, I want you to listen to this quick disclaimer the views and opinions expressed on the Transparent Nature podcast are those of the host and guests and does not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the organizations or businesses which we are affiliated with. The content shared is intended for entertainment and educational purposes only. Any advice given should not be construed as legal, hr or professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek personalized guidance from certified professionals for their specific needs. Now let's get back into the episode. Well, hey, we're back from the disclaimer. I had to share that just because I don't want to get in trouble, right, if you work in HR and compliance, you know, and so I definitely want to post that and share that information with you.
Speaker 1:So the Hot Topic DEI. It's been a conversation that actually we've been talking about well before 2025. It's something it just didn't appear out of thin air. This conversation has been going on well into 2024. And then, of course, now we're seeing the effects from it. This conversation has been going on well into 2024. And then, of course, now we're seeing the effects from it. A lot of people have been talking about DEI, a lot of people who are not experts in this field, a lot of people who don't even work in HR. You know just influencers out there that just want to talk about it but haven't done the research. And again, dr MJ, you talked about you doing the research, right, so let's talk about it. What is DEI and what is it not? How can you or how do you define it and what are some misconceptions people have about DEI in the current political climate?
Speaker 2:I love starting with this question for several reasons, because I do think there is a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there. So here's what I'm gonna do. When we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion they're three separate words, right? They each?
Speaker 2:have very specific things that they're targeting and specific areas that they're seeking to address in the workplace. So let's start with that D. So diversity, when you think about it, simply means range. It means difference. So you think about all the differences that people bring into a workplace culture. I think a lot of times we focus on very specific differences, so sometimes we think, oh, diversity race, gender when it's so much broader than that. And so one thing you pointed out, you talked about, you know my dyslexia and hard of hearing, and so that's something I'm very transparent and honest about, and so we have to think about it Like it's so much bigger than just race and gender you have.
Speaker 2:You have ability, you have veteran status, you have socioeconomic status. So it's like all of these different things that people bring to the workplace. Right, that's the diversity piece. Then you get to the E. Now, this is where I get the most. Isn't that like preferential treatment and that goes into that?
Speaker 2:second, part of your question. We'll get to that second part about the misinformation. But E is for equity, and so what equity is designed to do in its truest form is to create a level playing field where there may not be a level playing field. So equity, what it is not, it is not preferential treatment, it is not about doing something for one group and not doing it for another, right. It's about thinking about okay, are there certain individuals or groups in the workforce who may not have the same access to opportunities? So that's equity in its truest form. It's trying to get everybody to have access to a level playing field, right.
Speaker 2:That's the E We'll come back to that, and then the I is inclusion, and I think inclusion is one of those areas that gets the least resistant, in my opinion, just based on what I've seen. So inclusion is thinking about the intentionality of how we make sure every person in our workplace feels that they are an active member of the team, they feel like they are welcomed, they feel like they, they belong there, right and everybody. When you think about human psychology I got a psychology degree, but so this is like my jam right here.
Speaker 2:When you think about human psychology I got a psychology degree, but so this is like my jam right here there is actually psychology behind inclusivity and belonging, when a person feels like they belong in a culture and they feel included they actually experience the same emotions as like eating ice cream or you know something that brings them a lot of joy.
Speaker 2:But when they feel excluded, there are people who actually feel actual symptoms and pain and anxiety, stress. So it really, it really is important to think about it from that perspective too, cause a lot of people say like, oh, the bottom line, you know how does this impact how much revenue we bring in? But it's, yeah, it impacts the bottom line. But we also have to think about people. Are people, every person, I don't care who you are, at some point in time wants to feel like they belong to something bigger than themselves. They want to feel that sense of community.
Speaker 2:So, in its truest form, that's what DEI is Now going back to, what it's not, what is it not? And I think this is why we're in the situation we're in right now. Right, because there is so much misinformation about what DEI is Okay. So DEI is not about preferential treatment. It's not about hiring folks who are unqualified. I have heard that time and time again and you'll even hear people say like, oh, that must be a DEI hire, insinuating that somehow they are not qualified for the position to be a DEI hire, insinuating that somehow they are not qualified for the position.
Speaker 2:As HR practitioners, we know we are not trying to hire unqualified folks to come in our organizations.
Speaker 1:We need the best talent right.
Speaker 2:We need the best talent and we also have to think about it in terms of okay, how are we creating opportunities to make sure that people have access to the jobs that we're advertising, or whatever that position may be? So it's more of recognizing are there talented folks who are getting overlooked?
Speaker 1:Are there qualified.
Speaker 2:Emphasis on the qualified. Are there qualified people who are getting overlooked, who don not, who don't have the same access, because maybe they have issues with transportation, maybe they take the bus, maybe they don't have a car.
Speaker 2:So many things to consider, and so that's what DEI is, in its truest form and, unfortunately, I think, because of all the misinformation, especially in an age where you have, like, a lot of technology, a lot of AI, it's really easy for people, like you said, the influencers just upload and stuff saying oh, this is what it is and what it's not. I think it's really important for us to have these kinds of conversations so we can really address what it is and who it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one thing that you stated you were talking about, you know qualified candidates and ensuring that. You know, basically, we're looking elsewhere. For example, there are organizations who may not recruit at HBCU colleges, right, and so what it's saying is, hey, have we considered, have we looked at going to HBCUs instead of just what they call it PWI, right, pwi. And I think that I think that we have to. You know, basically, stop the shenanigans of you know, this person is just a DEI hire, right. We have to look at it and say you know what? Are they qualified to do the job? And if they are qualified to do the job, they should be a candidate for this position, right.
Speaker 1:Another thing that I thought that I thought about was really, as individuals go through you know applications, and one thing people say that you know you, the best way to find a job is through your network, right, and so that automatically that's what I thought about they may not have the same access or the same network to get that job that that other person may be able to get that job.
Speaker 1:Right, they may not have that mother, that cousin, that uncle, have that mother, that cousin, that uncle, that neighbor who helps everybody in the neighborhood to get a job right. They may not have that right. They may live in a community where these individuals really may not work, or they work in blue collar jobs Right, and don't really have the access to say, hey, let me connect with somebody in that field who can help me get a job, not only that, who want to help me get a job Right. So that was definitely one thing that I thought about as you were talking. So, as we're talking about DEI right, another thing that's been coming up is affirmative action, and a lot of people have been saying that affirmative action is slowly going away or it's already gone, right. But let me ask you this how are they different and why is this distinction crucial as DEI initiatives face challenges in the political landscape?
Speaker 2:That's good, that's real good. So the difference is one is mandated and the other isn't. So affirmative action was actually enacted in 1961 under President Kennedy, and so what affirmative action was designed to do was to make sure that contractors were not being discriminated against because of their race national origin right.
Speaker 2:So this is 1961, when that executive order was put into place. And so you kind of look at the timeline and then you look at the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which is Title VII, and then you look at 1965, which is Title VII, and then you look at 1965, president Lyndon B Johnson expanded the affirmative action. So the difference is those are actual executive orders that were put in place. So the EEOC actually was created during that time, during President Kennedy's presidency. So that was back in the 1960s. So diversity, equity, inclusion, is essentially kind of it's like a child of affirmative action, but it's not necessarily.
Speaker 2:There aren't the same man, same mandates put in place for that, so, but what it's designed to do is to help organizations think about OK, how are we making sure that we're creating that equitable, inclusive, diverse climate so our people can thrive and so that our organizations thrive? And so it's not necessarily. There aren't any laws in place saying that an organization has to have DEI policies in place.
Speaker 2:But I want to emphasize this there are also no laws, there are no laws currently saying that diversity, equity and inclusion is illegal, even though there are certain executive orders that have been put I know I'm trying not to make it too complicated basically, organizations, as long as they are adhering to the laws that are in place, that are currently in place, that have been in place, that have been in place, then what they are doing is legal. And I'll also advise this If you have any doubt about whether or not a DEI policy or initiative you have in place is legal or not or is something you can do, I would advise talking to an employment lawyer, general counsel, somebody in your.
Speaker 2:HR team who really has an understanding of loss, but it does get a little confusing, but there are certain mandates in place that do protect organizations and protect people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean I want to ask you this Okay, do you think affirmative action is under the radar, like it's going away is under the radar?
Speaker 2:like it's going away. You know what? I'll tell you this because I worked in higher education and when I saw the Supreme Court overturn the affirmative action as it relates to admissions for college students, I did have some concerns. I said, okay, so they're starting with colleges and universities. And usually what happens when you have those kind of things happen? What ends up happening is it does go into other sectors. So it's like okay, we start with colleges and universities, then we'll go to government, then we go to nonprofits and it's harder to control corporations because they're private entities.
Speaker 2:There is a possibility, but I will also say because of the checks and balances we have in place or that should be in place within our society. We may not get to that point, but it's kind of hard to tell, because there are a lot of things right now where federal judges are blocking it left and right, where it's like, nope, nope, this is still legal. You can't do that and so making sure that people aren't overreaching, because we do have three branches of government for a reason. So it's such a tough question. It's hard to say right now if you would have asked me this eight years ago.
Speaker 2:Ten years ago, I said, no, it's here to stay. You know, this is our country. We're built on diversity and people. You, you know from all over. We're a melting pot, but now it's a possibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But we don't know for sure yet. But again, there are certain mandates that are very much still in place, and so we just have to make sure that we are aware of what's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's get a little bit back. Step back a little bit. Dei there's also a lot of conversations out there about really who benefits most from DEI initiatives and believe it or not, as a lot of this stuff was coming out and information and changes about DEI, again, there's a lot of people that share more information about it and there's facts on the website about it, if you want to do your research, but I want to ask you you're the expert right who benefits or who have benefited most from DEI initiatives?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's kind of similar to affirmative action and I will say there are certain genders and ethnicities that may have benefited a little bit more than others, but I want to say this this is how I'm going to answer this question, because it is when done correctly, there is nobody on the planet who would not benefit from DEI. When done correctly, there is nobody on the planet.
Speaker 1:who would not benefit from DEI?
Speaker 2:That includes cisgender white men, christian white men, you know, whatever it whoever?
Speaker 2:it may be, when done correctly, everybody benefits from it. It's almost like universal design. Are you familiar with universal design? I can explain it real quick. So I do a lot of work when it comes to Americans with Disabilities Act, so ADA, and so we have this thing we do in the workplace called universal design. And so it's like you design it with accessibility, inclusivity in mind in the beginning, and everybody will benefit from it. So you may not even have employees who need accommodations because it's already designed that way, and so it's a similar principle with DEI. When you think about it, when it's done correctly, and you're really thinking about how can we ensure that everyone is benefiting from this? There's nobody who wouldn't benefit from it. So that's how I look at it, and I do think part of the reason where we've seen so much pushback is because you do have certain folks in certain organizations that may have focused on one aspect of DEI without thinking about it holistically, and so I do think that's part of the reason we're experiencing the pushback we experience.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love that take on it, and I don't think I've heard anybody say it the way you said it. Right, and I think that we all have to think about it in a way of you know, if we are more inclusive or we're more diverse, it's going to help us to get different perspectives, especially as, in thinking about it from a business standpoint, it's definitely going to help us to reach more right, reach more people and, especially if we're selling a product or service, we're providing that. I think that DEI initiatives are really important. Now let me ask you this, because you know, I think that too, I've been hearing a lot of organizations are starting to change the name, and these are public, I mean, these are private corporations, but you know, we've all been hearing about the corporate organizations. That's pushing back Right, like we're not doing anything at all right, and I think there's some current protests going on. I won't say any names, but again, I think that, as it relates to really organizations changing the name, what are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get it. I'll say this Initially, when I learned of different organizations changing the name, I was like, ah, they caved.
Speaker 1:I'm being 100% straight up honest. I was like, no, don't cave under pressure, they still have the initiative, but they're just changing the name. Right, we're just calling it equity or inclusivity.
Speaker 2:But I will say my perspective on it has changed. Here's why Because initially I was like, okay, don't change the name, keep it. But now it's more of okay, if we know that this is going to be polarizing for some people and it's going to create hostility in the workplace or hostility towards your customer base, or whatever it may be. If you happen to rebrand and rethink this is what needs to be done, then so be it. I'm absolutely in support of that now, especially because of the witch hunt that's happening. We know that there are actual organizations.
Speaker 2:There are websites now that are looking like who's doing DEI work, right, it's getting to that point. So I will say this I feel like the majority of organizations that have either rebranded or the ones that look like they may have stepped back, a lot of them are actually still doing the work and they're just like you said. They repackaged it, renamed it and they're just thinking through it like, ok, how can we continue to do this in a way that's legal? How can we do this without causing any tension? But it's tricky because I look, I can, I can sit here, you know, cut me off when you need to, because if you look at certain organizations that decided to pull back now, they're struggling right, and where some, they may not be struggling while others are.
Speaker 2:And I think it's important for organizations to think about okay, who's your target market? Are you going to isolate the people who support you most if you do decide to put back, pull back or vice versa, right? So, thinking about it from a business standpoint, I always feel like it's always going to be good for business. If done correctly, it will be good for business. And we see, like in some situations when you do pull back, essentially what you're telling your customers or what you're telling your employees is hey, we don't value you or we don't value your experience, and you never want to do that. So you do have to be very intentional with how you go about implementing things or choosing to scale back on things, because people are watching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, people are watching and I think that there are a lot of I'm just going to say it churches out there that are using their platform to, I want to say, persuade their thoughts into their congregation about the situation. But if anything I want people to realize is do your own research. Don't do it just because everybody else is doing it. Do it for your research.
Speaker 1:It was another podcast that I was listening to. I think it's called the HR Unlocked Podcast and they were talking about you know, hey, if you're trying to protest, hey, if you're going, if you're trying to protest, remember the individuals that are a minority, that have products on the shelf. If you're going to pull back, remember that that business they're depending on your support. They're depending on your support. Where they may not have that the product is tailored for you and I like let's just, let's just be honest, right and so, if you're going to pull back, um and again, ensure that you have done your research and if you want to stand for something, stand for it, right, but but do it knowing that you've done your part with educating yourself and and and even realizing the impact that it's going to make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that you know. That's a fair point and I'm I'm really glad you brought that up because we do have to think about are there certain individuals, certain organizations that will, that will be on the receiving end of that, that boycott? Right? And, like you said, it does go back to really understanding research, understanding the impact your decision has. Can you buy directly from that particular seller, you know, and so it's. It's very complicated and multifaceted, yeah, but no, I, I. What I really appreciate you saying is that, like we have to take the opportunity to really learn what's really going on. How can we navigate this particular climate right now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about this. I think people are afraid, I think people are scared. People are not. They're not sure what's going to happen a year from now, or even, let alone, six months from now. As it relates to the impact of the pushback in DEI initiatives, the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act is still here and I think, as it relates to in the workplace, again people are not thinking like, hey, there, there's still laws in place to help protect certain individuals, certain types of people related to age, related to discrimination and all those things that that Civil Rights Act talks about, and all those things that that Civil Rights Act talks about. So we know it's still in place. We're seeing, but we're seeing debates about its protections in the workplace, and so can you really explain how this law protects employees today and what are some limitations?
Speaker 2:So protections are still in place and so Title VII is specifically around the Civil Rights Act of 1964, right that protects people from discrimination based on race, based on creed, ethnicity and some other different identities right. That's why I said I think it's really important for HR practitioners to make sure that if we let's say we don't have in-house general counsel, or you know we don't have in-house general counsel, or you know we don't have a lawyer that we're working with, to stay as informed as possible.
Speaker 2:Because, right now, what we're seeing is some fear mongering happening about oh, you can't do this, you can't do that, right, when actually there are still very much laws and protections in place. So there's so many different ways to stay informed. Now you want to make sure you go to a credible source, right, you want to make sure you talk about the misinformation, but think about you know, like those employment law firms or employment lawyers or different you know organizations that specialize in HR work and those kind of organizations, and how you can stay informed and stay in different communities Like I know, I'm a part of, like different LinkedIn HR groups and I'm sure you are too and a bunch of us are.
Speaker 2:But really think about how you can stay informed as possible because, as you said, right now those protections are very much still in place and it would take Congress to actually overturn some of this, not just executive orders. So but yeah, yeah it, those protections are still there. I'll say that Currently, in this moment, they are still there.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah. So you got any tips for employees navigating this challenging landscape. I know that I've personally seen some challenges and have heard different stories again on you know from different HR groups. You know people are very vocal about it. How can employees navigate the evolving DEI landscape, especially when the political discourse around it feels polarized?
Speaker 2:I would say one of the things that has helped several professionals I know, and included myself, is making sure that you have a community right now, and by that that can look a lot of different ways, especially for us in HR. You know we kind of we needed more.
Speaker 2:Ok, let's gather, let's talk through this, because sometimes we can get so passionate about a certain certain something that's happening or something we've seen happen or something that we've heard, and sometimes we have to step back and take the passion out of it just a little bit and maybe talk to another professional like, okay, this is what was just done, how can we address this? And having that collective, that collective, you know community can really help, and especially like same thing for employees you know thinking about. Are there people in the workforce or in the workplace who you feel like you could really talk to about some of the things that are happening? Because it is a lot. Every time you read something or turn on the news, it can feel incredibly overwhelming and what I don't want people to do is bury their heads in the sand, because that's what ends up happening a lot of times, right, people feel like, oh, it's too much. Every time I turn on the news it's some new law.
Speaker 2:Even as HR professionals, we want to bury our heads in the sand and be like. I cannot take another change Like. I can't try to keep up with all the legal side of it, but I would say to stay informed but also, you know, protect your well-being and everything. Don't feel like you have to consume information constantly, but stay informed and think about what your community is going to look like, so that you do have that camaraderie and you're not you don't feel so alone in all the changes that are happening.
Speaker 1:You know, what about those employees who work in organizations and let's just say they don't feel supported because of these changes? They're hearing crazy comments and statements and just really disheartening things. That is really affecting their morale, it's affecting their experience. How can they specifically, or what are some things they can do, to get some support but also still have a job?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's always tough being in an organization where you feel like like you're the only one who's kind of experiencing something or going through like a tough time. When I talk about community, I do want to emphasize that community does not have to be internal. About community I do want to emphasize that community does not have to be internal. So, if you need to seek maybe okay, I'll say this so, like a lot of times in organizations you may have, like employee resource groups, affinity networks and things like that, but maybe your organization doesn't have that, that does not mean that you cannot have that same support outside of your organization. So if you need to build that community outside of your organization, then do so Because, like I said, you know I'm a part of different HR groups and DEI groups and like half of these people I've never met, you know.
Speaker 2:But it's just nice being able to talk about, oh, you're experiencing this too, yeah, me too, you know. And so just know that there are people out there who may have shared lived experiences. And I think the biggest thing right now is we don't want people to feel isolation. We don't want them to feel like they're alone in anything that they're experiencing Right now.
Speaker 1:What my heart is telling me to share is I think right now is a time that organizations we need to love on our employees. I think this is the time we need to not just do it because every other organization is doing it, to come and think, like, if we have to rename our DEI programs and what it is and what it's not, and I think that this is the time to say you know what we value every employee that is working in our organization, because if it's not for the employees that come in every day, whether that's in the office or remote, that's a hot topic too. I think that, again, this is the moment to do it. This is the moment to have transparent conversations and even to your employees and saying hey, this is what we're going to do to ensure you still feel valued. So, if you're listening today, if you're listening to this episode, whether you're a supervisor, a team lead, a manager, director, and definitely if you're in the C-suite, have conversations with your legal team. Have conversations with your legal team, have conversations with the organization, the key stakeholders, about what are we going to do to embrace all of our employees and letting them know that this is a place you want to work at.
Speaker 1:Just wanted to take that moment. I felt it in my heart to share that for someone that's listening today. Whether you're in the US or across the world, embrace your employees and let them know that you value them. Yeah, one last not this is not the last question, but something that I thought about that we didn't really talk about, and I think it's important to the EOC. You know, I think for a lot of people, people think that the EOC is going to be dismantled as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on this? Because I think a lot of people I mean EOC, they love discrimination claims, they love those retaliation claims, but for a lot of people they think like I can't go to the EOC anymore. And mind you, we're not. I'm not saying you need to go to the EOC. What I'm saying is they are there as a resource and as we talk about community right, that that could be a community of resource, right. What's going on with the EEOC right now?
Speaker 2:Just based on what I know. I actually know someone who works at the EEOC and we just had a conversation about it. So for those of you who've been keeping up and I'm sure most of us have been keeping up, most folks listening you know that there's a lot of layoffs and terminations happening in terms of like government employees and very specific sectors and, from what I know, there were discussions about downsizing the EEOC. Now, the EEOC is not the only organization or government agency that's looking at potential downsizing. We've seen it happen with others. But I do want to stress something that you said A lot of times we think these organizations are no longer there. The EEOC is still very much there. It is there and it's been there since the 1960s. Now, whether or not there will be some potential cuts and downsizes there, potentially, but I think it's important for people to know that even with downsizing, there are still organizations in place. It's just a matter of you may not have as many employees there anymore, so yeah, that's another one.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like that affirmative action question you had. It's really hard to say right now, but while it's still here, we still have these protections and mandates. So that's how we have to think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and let me ask you this, just just just in case for that individual that is listening they're like what is the EEOC? I don't know what that is. Tell us what that is. What is it? And you know, what do most people go to them for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the EEOC stands for Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and so that was started in the 1960s as well, under President Kennedy's presidency. Started in the 1960s as well under President Kennedy's presidency, and going back to that first executive order that I talked about when I talked about affirmative action, and so that was put in place specifically for individuals, for workers who had discrimination claims that they wanted to take before. Well, they couldn't do it in their workplaces, so they had to take it before the commission, right? This particular body that helps determine whether or not something is considered discriminatory or not. And so that's their job, right? Because they're supposed to be this outside entity that's subjective, whereas we know like an organization is going to do everything it can to protect itself.
Speaker 2:So when an employee comes forward, you know everybody's not going to be objective internally, so you have to have this outside agency that can kind of help determine whether or not something is indeed discriminatory. So that's what it is, and it's put in place for a reason because we know like it's hard to be objective when you're internal to an organization oftentimes.
Speaker 2:But you know you have those protections in place. It's like you know what I feel like this could be potential disability discrimination or racial discrimination, gender discrimination, whatever it may be and so you are able to go to that outside entity to take your case to them and they can kind of determine whether or not it was discrimination.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. One thing I want to encourage my listeners is I want you to and I think I'm a little biased because I do work in HR but I want you to, like, if you are dealing with certain situations in your workplace and you're having challenging moments, like yeah, you can go to EOC, but ensure that you give your employee an opportunity to investigate what's going on. You may not know the immediate actions they're taking to address a certain situation, but go to your HR representatives, ensure that you are submitting those claims, submitting those disagreements, submitting and really making sure that someone is aware. I think that a lot of employees think that HR is not their friend, and we have an episode on that. It's not their friend and we have an episode on that. But I think that every organization is a little different.
Speaker 1:Yes, and if you've worked in the organization in the past where HR was definitely not your friend or not friendly, then then make sure you give those HR reps, those H, those HR leaders, an opportunity to address your concern, especially when we're talking about discrimination. But hey, the EOC is always there. But it's my job to ensure that your voice is being heard and that we try to mitigate whatever risk there is in the organization. At the end of the day, I tell people all the time you are the organization and if you don't realize that, that you are a part of the organization, sometimes people you know they just get upset about it. Ensure that you're talking with somebody in your organization, ensuring that you are following that chain of command to ensure that your voice is being heard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right. Last question oh, go ahead, and I was. I was going to say a follow up today because I'm glad you said that, because what I was not, I want to make sure I wasn't saying like, oh, you know, we can't be objective internally. We absolutely can. It's just there are going to be certain situations where you know you have to follow the process. Like you said, you follow the due process, you go up the chain in the organization and then sometimes it has to go beyond just that. So, but I'm glad you touched on that and kind of emphasize no, hr is still very much there for a reason. Like you, you still want to follow the process because, like you said, in one organization HR will have you back like oh okay, all right, we know this has come up, this person has been recorded 50,000 times, we know the supervisor by name, we know exactly so and you know in in. In that case, a lot of times HR will step in and say okay, we need to do executive coaching for that person or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:So you absolutely do want to, you know, go through the internal change.
Speaker 1:So thank you for that yeah, yeah, no, no, no, absolutely. You know, I think again, because I'm an HR professional, I have to say that right. Yeah, because I think there's moments where people, you know they just don't give their employees an opportunity because they're corporate, or or you know they, you know executive leaders, are making all the money and they think that they're just you know that they don't have a voice.
Speaker 1:You do have a voice, absolutely All right. So our last question for today, just any last tips or insights how can we ensure that the conversations about DEI remain constructive, and not just in the workplace, but within our society as well?
Speaker 2:Oh, last thoughts.
Speaker 2:This is good because I always have like a bunch of thoughts, but I'm like, ok, let's bring it all together. I'm going to do a few, if that's OK. I would say. The first one is to remember that people people are at the heart of an organization and they always will be, Even as we become more technologically advanced and all that, and we got all the AI and all the different things.
Speaker 2:I stand on this and I have always stood on this, and a lot of HR practitioners will tell you the same you cannot function without a healthy workplace culture, and so we have to remember that as we think about you know all the different attacks on certain aspects of what we do, you know, as it relates to DEI we have to sit back and ask ourselves but if we don't center our people, if we don't center inclusivity, what impact will this have on our workplace culture? What impact will this have on our people, their morale? What impact will this have on our workplace culture? What impact will this have on our people, their morale? What impact will this have on our customers or whoever's buying our products or whatever field we may be in? Right, and so I want us to always have this people centered approach in what we do and remember why we do what we do.
Speaker 2:I would say another thing, kind of going back to something I talked about a little bit earlier, because right now it can feel really overwhelming with all the information coming at us. But just remember that you have people who are in the legal profession for a reason. You have people who are in in certain areas who can really explain what's going on because you have so much information coming at you. You may not always know what's fact and what's fiction, but just remember to make sure that, going back to that community piece, have your core community of folks you can consult, who you can talk with, who you can actually get the real deal from.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:OK, what's really going on, what's really what's up with this mandate or whatever it may be, so that way you're always informed as possible. So yeah, I have so many different things because it's such an interesting time, because there's so much happening, but I think that's those are my two biggest takeaways for this particular conversation. Now, if I come back, it may be different, because I don't know what it's going to look like six months, a year from now. I might be advising something totally different, but right now I think I think that's going to be key.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love what you say. You have to build community.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we are born for community. We need people in our corners. We need people who can help us when we are confused, when we're not sure what to believe Right. But not only that. I think we also have to look to the Lord, look unto Him, for help and guidance on how we handle certain situations, even though what we see is not what we like right. But thank you so much, dr MJ. Before we close, I always like to leave with an encouraging note.
Speaker 1:As we talk about and think about balance, inclusion and navigating today's challenges, I want to share this verse Colossians 3, 23 through 24. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Again, colossians 3, verse 23 and 24. This reminds us that, no matter the external pressures or debates we face, the work we do for inclusion, justice and equity matters deeply and is a part of a bigger picture and purpose. Dr MJ, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing such invaluable insights in this time when DEI is not only reshaping the workplace but also becoming a political battleground. Your perspective is incredibly timely. Again, we really appreciate you and your expertise and just your transparency and honest about our conversation that we had today. Tell us, dr MJ, how can people find you and learn more about the work that you do each and every day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll say so. I do have a website, dr MJ McConner dot com, but I'm actually most active on LinkedIn, so LinkedIn is my jam. I do have Instagram and Facebook and everything and it's all the same. Handle Dr MJ McConner. But if you really want to engage and you really want to see like different posts and everything because I try to be, I try to post up to date things and what's happening and how it relates to our field so I would definitely say, connect with me on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, thank you again. If you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe to the Transparent Nature podcast, share it with a friend and leave us a review. We'd love it. As DEI continues to shape the way we work and interact, your support helps us to continue bringing you transparent and practical HR insights to navigate these challenging times. It's your host, prince Tate, and keep navigating your career with clarity and confidence, even as we tackle the tough conversations happening in today's workforce. Thank you, and we'll see you on the next episode.
